The great debate!

Ok the following is a debate that came from an earlier post and I wanted to see what you all thought about the conversation. But first, I want to post this Vid form ZoNation. It shows just a few example of the hypocrisy on the left that claim to support free choice and yet adhere to conformity. Then ready this, the first part is the original post topic followed by the comments. You tell me who truly supports freedom.

So it appears that the Birthers are being watched by those pesky Acronyms. Just more Proof is all I have to say at the moment. Do they honestly think they’re gonna gain more support my treating Americans who just want the truth like common criminals, or worse terrorist? NO! All they’re gonna do if piss us off even more! Push us closer to the edge! Go On keep Pushing! Eventually We’ll Bite!

Amelix Says: Did you ever stop to think that it may not be the fact that you seek a truth but the way in which it is sought, displayed, and disseminated which labels you as a criminal or terrorist? You claim to seek the truth but I question just how much of the truth you understand. I question just how deep you have delved into the disillusion you have created for yourself.

Using your disillusion of freedom and the papers you and most who write these types of sites cling to… mainly the first amendment of the constitution, yes… you have the right to speak your mind; but, there are classifiers.

You do not have the right to speak your mind if by speaking it you will incite a riot. You do not have the right to speak your mind if by speaking it you will offend others. You do not have the right to speak your mind if by speaking it you will cause physical or non-physical harm to others (intentionally or not).

Your “Go On keep Pushing! Eventually We’ll Bite!” comment meets all three classifications and can have you listed as a criminal or a terrorist. IF truth is what you seek, than truth will find you. If, however, blood and war are all that you will seek, then may your parting be swift.

One last question before you depart, however… Are you aware the “truth” for which you fight is yet another “lie”?

BFreedomFighter Says: By telling me that I don’t have a right to insult you tells me that your just a sissy that can’t stand to have his feelings hurt.

1). Grow some balls and get a back bone. (I know where I stand, I took and oath to defend this country from all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC.)

2) If I don’t have to right to say what I please when I please then I really don’t have the right of Freedom of Speech then do I? If it wasn’t for those who spoke their mind to incite a revolution then our great country (which used to be free) wouldn’t exsist. King George tried to stop those who disagreed from speaking out to remember?

3) I know the truth of what I speak ,otherwise I would not speak it. I have learned (as history would have us learn) that when certain pieces of a puzzle start to form a picture you have to recognize it for what it is. Just ask the Jews from Germany about how they felt while Hitler was gaining power and they’ll tell you that they never saw it for what it was till it was too late.

4) Americans should never be considered criminal for speaking their OWN mind. Whats criminal is when you cage your mind because some teacher or politician told you what to think. If it wasn’t for the free expression granted to every American our country either wouldn’t exsist or would be a very dull place.

5) Please clarify your last question. You don’t make a whole lot of sence by not answering it.

Final word…Prove me wrong… Trust me I hope I am.

Amelix Says: To clarify the last question first, The articles of confederation list us as the United States of America whereas the loan papers taken out by Franklin on two separate occasions — papers which are held by England — list us as the United States of NORTH America. Further, we did not “win” our freedom. We won the right to govern ourselves in the land area that is currently known as the United States of America. We did not win nor were we given the rights to own the land.

As for “Freedom of Speech” and the First amendment, if you are not willing to consider the feelings of others while discussing a difference of opinion… ie a gentleman’s discussion… then you are no different than the bully government you wish to “overthrow”. Freedom of Speech is something inherent to all man not something that was given by an act of congress.

An act, incidentally which means absolutely nothing since the Constitution has been essentially nullified by the enactment of an emergency act of 1917 which was approved in 1917 but not enacted upon until March 1933 when our nation went into a quite efficient silent Martial Law. We do not fly the civil flag but the flag of war in our schools, our courts, our very houses. We salute it with a modification of a fascist salute and we recite a declaration to it incidentally written by a known fascist.

As for whether or not I have the balls to “stand up and fight”… I’ll wait until the ignorant, the blatantly blood-thirsty, war-mongering people of this great planet are done killing each other so that we can get back to the business of reality. War is in fact the last item on my list. Surviving the coming dawn would be the first. IF, however, I must fight (and fighting I might add can be done in many different ways not just with guns and ammo), I will fight prepared with the knowledge and understanding of the cause for which I stand –

Which is not this country in which I live, your warped ideas of freedom, the papers to which you cling, nor the values or morals so many do not understand. AM I in favor of freedom? Whose idea of Freedom would that be? Freedom from Oppression you may say. Any ruling party is an oppressor as they have control over another. A country without a ruler? Pure anarchy when there are no rules. Who would make the rules should you succeed in your endeavor? Those you chose. Those you choose would then be the ruling party and therefore an oppressor. The vicious cycle continues as trust gives way to greed and greed to want of control. If it is done and done proper, it will subsist any and all possible harm but if done wrong, it will in fact cause more death than any in history.

You see, this is not just a battle against the “Government of one country” but against the government of many countries. This deception goes deeper and involves more than just us… and I’ve only scratched the surface of my own research into it.

You fear the New World Order coming into being… It came into being on March 9, 1933 when President Roosevelt handed over the government of the United States. If you want to prove me wrong, show me a full and unedited copy of the 42nd, 43rd, and 44th congresses which created a framework for the government we have today!

Until you find the whole explanation, assumptions simply lead to more problems and in the end the spider’s web has you so entangled that you are trapped by your own perceived realities and reasons. As I stated above, fight if you must but know the whole truth not just what you’ve been spoon fed by both sides!

FreedomFighter Says:

“fight if you must but know the whole truth not just what you’ve been spoon fed by both sides!”

If by both sides you mean the D’s and the R’s? Well then I have to tell you that Most of nation is opposed to both, Dems more than Reps but still pissed myself included. But thats exactly what NWO wants. For us to fight among ourselves so they go un-noticed.

Amelix Says:  Actually I meant by the government and the theorists who spread rumors without a shred of true evidence to back themselves up… only theories or stated opinions by other theorists who got their information from an unverifiable alleged inside source. I don’t know you well enough to know if you are or aren’t one; however, what I meant was… instead of taking as the truth what is stated on a site for anyone to look at, do your own research and follow it to it’s end… the only truth there. You can hide truth behind the allegation of lies or hide lies behind the allegation of truth but you have to look past the picture that’s been painted to see the truth or you are still following a leader or believing in a cause blindly.

You say you are sick of opposition… how about this theory for you to gnaw on… (even though I’ve already stated when the NWO was established in America)… If theorists are considered terrorists and criminals; and, if their websites cause such unrest as to issue a nation into revolt against itself; and, if they are as dangerous with their pens as they may well be with their guns… why haven’t their sites been shut down and they themselves thrown in jail and charged with terroristic threats and inciting unrest against the government?

I’ll tell you why…and I quote “But thats exactly what NWO wants. For us to fight among ourselves so they go un-noticed.” How is it that a woman whose husband works for the federal government can keep a YouTube site up and not be charged with threats against her own government when she discusses openly on the site about “taking down the strawman” or “gaining our rightful independence from the corporate invaders”? Think… Don’t just blindly follow. Research… Don’t just believe without proof because Joe Schmoe first said it and Jane Doe said he’s reliable.

I could continue but you should be beginning to see the other parts of your little puzzle instead of just the corners.

FreedomFighter Says:

win (wn)
v. won (wn), win·ning, wins
v.intr.
1. To achieve victory or finish first in a competition.
2. To achieve success in an effort or venture: struggled to overcome the handicap and finally won.
v.tr.
1. To achieve victory or finish first in.
2. To receive as a prize or reward for performance.
3.
a. To achieve or attain by effort: win concessions in negotiations.
b. To obtain or earn (a livelihood, for example). See Synonyms at earn1.
4. To make (one’s way) with effort.
5. To reach with difficulty: The ship won a safe port.
6. To take in battle; capture: won the heights after a fierce attack.
7. To succeed in gaining the favor or support of; prevail on: Her eloquence won over the audience.
8.
a. To gain the affection or loyalty of.
b. To appeal successfully to (someone’s sympathy, for example).
c. To persuade (another) to marry one: He wooed and won her.
9.
a. To discover and open (a vein or deposit) in mining.
b. To extract from a mine or from mined ore.
n.
1.
a. A victory, especially in a competition.
b. First place in a competition.
2. An amount won or earned.
Phrasal Verbs:
win out
To succeed or prevail.
win through
To overcome difficulties and attain a desired goal or end.
Idiom:
win the day
To be successful.

Tell me again our founders didnt win. Im sure if you came face to face with George Washington he would set you straight. As far as the rest of your comments go, I agree with most of what you are trying to tell me, I dont know if you read my other post but if you had read them all you would see that I’m not trying to “overthrow our government,” I’m trying to help bring it back to the way it was intended. While at the same time trying to prepare and help others prepare in the event the worst comes to worst, and to show others that there is in fact a global conspiracy leading to complete tyranny. As far as the discussion on Free speech, I will say this, I am more than willing to have a “gentleman’s discussion.” I was only trying to point out the fact that we do NOT have complete Fee Speech like the Constitution say BECAUSE of the laws passed by the Alinsky Disciples. It say in “Rules For Radicals” that if you control the language you can control the argument. This tells me that by inhibiting speech, telling me what I can or cannot say, then your intentions are not honest from the going and i must prepare to defend. Now, I must tell you that weather you choose to believe it or not we do agree on several of your points, but where we differ is where to go about fixing it. You said

“An act, incidentally which means absolutely nothing since the Constitution has been essentially nullified by the enactment of an emergency act of 1917 which was approved in 1917 but not enacted upon until March 1933 when our nation went into a quite efficient silent Martial Law. We do not fly the civil flag but the flag of war in our schools, our courts, our very houses. We salute it with a modification of a fascist salute and we recite a declaration to it incidentally written by a known fascist.”

First off, yes our constitution was being degraded long before I was born, or my father’s father, but should that mean that I don’t have to cherish the Idea for which is stands, and to defend that Ideal to my last breath? Yes I will agree that there are forces at work that have been here for a long time(IE see my posts on the Rothschild’s). As far as the declaration by a known fascist, well you have to clarify what you mean. If I am being lied to about such things than I want to see your source of the truth. Show me what you mean. it may change my opinion, it may not. It depends on the source.

“As for whether or not I have the balls to “stand up and fight”… I’ll wait until the ignorant, the blatantly blood-thirsty, war-mongering people of this great planet are done killing each other so that we can get back to the business of reality. War is in fact the last item on my list. Surviving the coming dawn would be the first. IF, however, I must fight (and fighting I might add can be done in many different ways not just with guns and ammo), I will fight prepared with the knowledge and understanding of the cause for which I stand –”

This is where we half agree. Yes WAR in the conventional sence is my last resort against Oppression. What makes someone “blatantly blood-thirsty” and “war-mongering.” If its speaking out against tyranny with threats of violence than I would call our founders blood-thirsty War-mongers too, even though they had exhausted all their other resources before it came to fighting, and if you remember it was the british who tried to take the Guns of Americans that really started the war. I started this blog to do just that. Use my other resources to fight mentally before it came to blood and guts. That however does not mean I’m going to wait till 23:59 at one minute to tyranny before I decide to prepare to fight physically. I would rather die on my feet then live on my knees to the whims of a tyrant. You may say where already there, which proves me right ever more. However, Like I have said in other post that I am not willing until it obvious to the rest of the nation what is happening. If I started alone I would just be labeled a blood-thirsty War-mongering Right-wing extremist, which would to more to hurt my cause than help it. I fully understand the power of the people and what they can accomplish when their hearts and minds reach the same conclusion. My primary MOS was 37Foxtrot(look it up). Their has been a war already for the minds of the masses and those that would be kings are losing as of late. Even a small victory is still a Win.

“Which is not this country in which I live, your warped ideas of freedom, the papers to which you cling, nor the values or morals so many do not understand. AM I in favor of freedom? Whose idea of Freedom would that be? Freedom from Oppression you may say. Any ruling party is an oppressor as they have control over another. A country without a ruler? Pure anarchy when there are no rules. Who would make the rules should you succeed in your endeavor? Those you chose. Those you choose would then be the ruling party and therefore an oppressor. The vicious cycle continues as trust gives way to greed and greed to want of control. If it is done and done proper, it will subsist any and all possible harm but if done wrong, it will in fact cause more death than any in history.”

First of all what make you think you understand better than others what freedom really means, or is. Who are you to judge weather or not I know the true meaning of what it is I stand for. The freedom I fight for is freedom to live, without the worry of doing whats right by the government over whats right for myself and my family. Control, is unfortunately, a regulated must. Without it your right, anarchy would ensue. But the control put forth by any government must be controlled itself. Our constitution layed out the blueprint for this which the progressive radical have hijacked for their own means. They were able to do this by manipulating history, education, and law. By changing the definition of freedom they are able to shape it how they please so the people don’t revolt. If the people revolted then it would be bloody.

“You see, this is not just a battle against the “Government of one country” but against the government of many countries. This deception goes deeper and involves more than just us… and I’ve only scratched the surface of my own research into it.”

Your preaching to the choir. I know there are outside influences, I’ll fight them too if I must, for as long as I live.

“You fear the New World Order coming into being… It came into being on March 9, 1933 when President Roosevelt handed over the government of the United States. If you want to prove me wrong, show me a full and unedited copy of the 42nd, 43rd, and 44th congresses which created a framework for the government we have today!”

EXACTLY!! Thank you. Really. I know that this countries laws today are based on the idea of eventual take over of a foreign leader. A NWO if you will. Which is exactly why we need to go back to the founding principles even more than ever.

By the way, you haven’t proven me wrong. In fact, you have only reaffirmed my conviction. Thank you. For this I will apologize for any comments I made toward you personally. I get a little heated when my freedoms are in jeopardy.

cmblake6 Says: Well, Hell’s Bells! I don’t have to dissect this individual, you’ve done a very good job. That government we desire has to do with the ORIGINAL INTENT of the Founders for a democratic republic. That served us for MANY generations until, as was said, polluted and spoiled by Teddy Roosevelt. What is needed is digging through the ruins of our historical records to undo the changes that the left has done to our history. We need hard, cold facts, and we need to return to that which made us great. We do not desire a tyranny, we desire such things as term limits for Congress, and so on, to repair that very ruination that has happened to us.

Amelix Says: The changes can’t be undone so easily… under the constitution, all of the laws enacted which allowed this to happen are sound – including the handing over of our government. what is needed is to vote into office farmers and teachers and moms and dads. Vote out ALL politicians. Vote out ALL who have been in office. We need a nation who uses the only thing that has not truly been taken away yet — our right to choose. Anyone can fight with guns but only a select few can fight with words. Under both the constitution and the bylaws of corporate government, every legalized and natural-born american has the right to choose their representatives. Get out all those who are in there and start from scratch. Yes, it may end in war but not a war against ourselves.

“A nation divided cannot stand” — Abraham Lincoln
” The pen is mightier than the Sword” — Don’t remember who

There may or may not still be time but if we work toward the proper goal — a BRAND NEW government written and enacted by the people, for the people and OF the people not the politicians we may be able to avert a civil unrest. Work for unity. Don’t just Win your freedom… make it so that it can never be taken from you…. Use what they cannot take away without inciting the anger of the world… our right to choose!

FreedomFighter Says: Like I said, if you haven’t read my all my post your missing that I have already stated that here. I want to throw them all out too. But there are a few things you have to remember. One, Obama was a teacher, a self-proclaimed constitutional professor at that. It’s because of the progressive teachers that the majority of the population have been dumbed to what their rights really mean and are. Second, it’s because of those that fight with guns that allow others to fight with words, this was the point of our second amendment. Also there its states in the constitution that if the people no longer care for their current form of government then they have the right to change or abolish it, again the second amendment is the fail safe for this. Lastly I’m not preparing my guns and survival gear to go to the polls to vote and choose. I got them incase they say I can’t choose.

Amelix Says: *sigh* this is truly a pointless back and forth. However, if you really must blame someone then blame me and you and everyone out there who allowed this to happen. the “progressive teachers” aren’t the only ones at fault. So are the parents who didn’t care enough about their children to challenge what was being taught. It was the lack of interest in what happened in government by the people who allowed this to happen. In its own structure, and through its own conception and birth, the constitution created the hole through which crept the possibility of its future because the government went unchecked by the people.

It wasn’t the government’s place to make sure it didn’t become corrupt or biased. It was ours–every last living American! We failed — not the right-wing extremists or the left-wing conservatives or any other wing, tail, or foot on the bird that flies this country. I accept what the role my unwillingness to be involved has cost us. But, I also see the troubles ahead for any who would follow the structure of a piece of paper which has already caused the downfall of their country once.

Do I want freedom? I have freedom. It is a state of mind not a physical act and as long as we believe we are prisoners, the government pulls the strings. Once you stop fighting the changes that must occur for the coming dawn of a new age, we can free this whole country. Unfortunately, you prepare for war and speak of peace. You speak of wanting the right to choose yet tear down another who chooses not to fight, thereby requiring them to argue with you here.

Here’s a riddle for you… and this is my last post here as this is a hopeless conversation with one who is close minded and only sees the small continent on which he lives….

How can you keep a Capitalism from becoming greed? Democracy — the right to choose. How do you keep Democracy honest? Socialism — the involvement of the people in the everyday activities of the government. How do you keep Socialists from taking over? Communism — the ability to cap what needs to be capped and distribute what should be distributed evenly among all the people.

You see, you cannot have one with out the other but man is not ready for such an advancement. Man isn’t prepared to give up the “little death” written in so many history books. Man isn’t ready to take the plunge into utopia because he can’t see past his own self-worth which he placed on himself.

“I… I… I….” is how we speak not “you… you… you….” Fight or don’t fight but in the end, the results will be the same. There will just be fewer who will experience it in the end. And, if this labels me an Anti-american in your eyes,or a fascist because I see the whole picture and not just the single corner you have put together with the puzzle pieces you have collected, then so be it. It hurts me not that you would be so narrow-minded in the search for freedom and equality that you would overlook the one element of peace that everyone needs… understanding of what is to come.

Good luck and Peace to you.

 

FreedomFighter Says: Name me ONE, just ONE Communist country that has become the Utopia you speak of? China is not by the way, the only reason they have surpassed us in industry is the fact that while they have accepted CAPITALISM in business, our own government has turned its back on it. The reasoning behind this is because of the progressives and communist infiltrators that want to tear town the fabric of the most prosperous nation on the planet. The Constitution didn’t fail, the people did, like you said by not keeping the government in check. But this was in part due to the false claims by the Communist sympathizers who want you to believe theirs is a better way. The Utopia you seek has never, nor will it ever exist in the realm of Man. God meant it this way. He gave man one chance, and because of the curious and corruptible nature of man he was cast out. But why should I expect you to believe in a Higher power. Marx and Lenin were atheist, and knew the power religion has to tear down what they worked hard to build. They knew that as long as Man believed in a God, they could never be one. This is why the Majority of liberal progressives push the anti-religion agenda. They don’t want you to believe in God, they want you to believe in them. The reason your Utopia will always fail is due entirely to mans nature. I don’t deny what man is, but you do. You believe that man can be forced to change. Its called Eugenics. Hitler tried to create Utopia too. Same with Stalin, Mao, Kim Jon Ill. You see how well that worked out. The problem with your claim is while capitalism breeds greed of wealth, Communism breeds greed of Power. What good is money when you already have claim to everything the people produce. The major difference is that while greed of wealth begets economic suffering greed of power breeds physical agony. I’ll take the latter. In capitalism, when one group or corporation has become to greedy its shown in their failure as a business, unless of course they get bailed out by the ever-expanding bureaucracy of our government. In communism, the only recourse the people have when they disagree with the establishment is Revolution, violent and bloody. When you really think about it, in your world man is but a collective mind always doing for the betterment of those in charge under the guise of bettering the people. Ask the peoples of North Korea how the collective is doing? This means that while you claim to support choice, you’re lying to yourself and me. There is no choice in a communist system. The Constitution only works when it is adhered to, but under our current government when follow it when you can just ignore it. The only reason they appear to follow it is simple. They know that should they open disregard the Constitution they WILL have a revolt on their hands, which is happening now at the polls. The peoples of America know full well what communism is and they don’t want it. Ask Scott Brown how he got elected. I’m sure you’ve never seen first hand the evils of socialism and communism. Other wise you would agree with me. I however have seen what socialism does to a country. While Saddam didn’t declare himself a communist his dealings with them were abundant and clear. His practices in governing where identical as well. He learned it from his father who was a known Nazi supporter. It’s clear to me that you need to do a lot more research about the system you support, don’t just look at how the “theory” of Communism works, but how it works in practice too. capitalism on the other hand has been proven time and time again to work more to the people’s benefit, when the government keeps its hands out is by far the better system. Even with the possibility of greed of money, those that want to succeed do and those that don’t reap the benefits thru the charity of others, the way God meant it.

cmblake6 Says: You know, I was agreeing with Amelix through the first two paragraphs. Then he went hard left. Dude, the “redistribution” you speak of is but theft from the earners. If you contribute, you receive. You earn a wage. You have the option of increasing your knowledge, increasing your output, increasing your value, and increasing your income.

We have said this before: “Help those who cannot help themselves, Fuck those who will not help themselves”.

How many of MY hours of productive labor are to be credited to the crack whore givin’ up da bootay fo’ sum smack? Fuck that, let her fucking starve if she won’t get off her ass and earn an income for food rather than drugs.

Help those who cannot help themselves, Fuck those who will not help themselves. Under-employed? What The Fuck is that? So maybe your educational skill level is a fully occupied tier of employment. Go learn something new, and run a gas pump at a full service station somewhere while you’re getting your new knowledge to eat until your new skill set comes open.

Idiots. Entitlement idiots. The things you were guaranteed in the Constitution was not happiness, they were the Rights To Life, Liberty,And The Pursuit OF Happiness. The Government doesn’t owe you a DAMNED thing. Except to get out of your way while you pursue the end goal, so long as it’s not illegal doing so.

Let me make one small enhancement to that thought. In the Utopian construct, so long as you contribute, you receive. The street sweeper is as vital to society as the computer software designer. The farmer as important as the builder, etc. And whatever is contributed is the best that can be made. Nobody lives in a shit hole, because the people who build houses build only the best houses. etcetera.

Now whats not mentioned about the “Utopia” and how it works is this. What happens when the guys building the houses don’t want to build houses anymore? What if their tired of busting their ass for the same rations that a desk jokey gets? What if nobody want to work the farms anymore? There has to be an incentive, otherwise no one will work, in any area of the society. Thats where Capitalism comes in, if you make a good product, and people have a need or desire for your product you work harder to provide it and you continue doing it. If you no longer want to work in that field because your tired of it, someone else will fill the gap because they stand to make profit in your stead. But if everyone makes the same then why work harder? why work in a job that risks your life, like building skyscrapers, when you could work at a call center? The only way for a government to maintain the standard of living in this system is to force people to work in a career field that is lacking. Call it Job Location Management.  In effect you remove their free choice for the betterment of the masses. The same way the Military runs things. Sure, you can join in the field you want but if another field is low on manning they could make you re-train into that career, even if you don’t want to. This my friends is how communism works. Free choice and liberty are replaced by the betterment of the Elite. Those that don’t have to work in any field because they “manage” every one thing instead. This is what the progressive teachers aren’t teaching you. This is what liberal hollywood isn’t showing you, and this is what the media isnt’ reporting to you.

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